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March 06, 2007

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» A SPIRITUAL SURGE? from Peaktalk
Amitai Etzioni is back blogging. He's written a thought provoking piece on how the West is struggling with the tension between materialism and the quest for spiritualism. Key quote: Western secularism largely avoids these issues. Its consumer hedonism ... [Read More]

Comments

fletcher

Perhaps you might apply this to yourself. You specify Islam and Xianity, but relegate Judaism to the lower paragraphs. As an intelligent person and judging solely by your non-alias, a Jew, where do you think the secular humanist moderates got their ideas from? Actually, it's not solely from your name; after all, it's Israeli rather than religiously Jewish. Shlomo Carlebach said he could pick out the Jews in the groups of students he met. The Protestants and Catholics would identify themselves as such. The one who said,"I'm just a human being." was the Jew. It sounds comic, but there's more to being a human being than a secular humanist could invent, and you saw it first in the Tenach. B'hatzlacha.

Carl Bostek

Religions have been around for some time and have changed over time as well. But while religions function as repositories of values I am not willing to conceed that they were developed for that purpose. But then, I don't believe that God handed the Ten Commandments to Moses.

I think it far more likely that religion developed as a way to answer the fundamental questions that face all people for all time, "Why am I here? What is the meaning of life? What awaits me after death?" Religion provides comfort that the alternative of living in an existential vacuum cannot provide. The primary values instilled by religion are those that help people to live together harmoniously -- the "golden rule" and variations thereon. Providing those rules with divine authority helps ensure accceptance and compliance, especially when disobedience imperils your resurrection and immortality.

I'll accept any religion as socially beneficial if it doesn't try to shove its beliefs down my throat or threaten to kill me if I don't convert.

Finally, I don't believe that Western secularism must necessarily be hedonistic. I agree that there's plenty of hedonism in American culture and suspect it will be our undoing. But I don't believe that secularism is necessarily hedonistic. That comes from overemphasizing individual "rights" and ignoring individual responsibilities.

As a culture, we need to revisit rights and responsibilities and clearly define individual rights and start insisting that they come with clearly defined responsibilities.

Cheers,

Carl

Tony

I agree with Carl. Interestingly, it's not just secular-humanists who think that morality and religion can be separated; many scholars who take religious ideas very seriously (such as Huston Smith, a member of the Traditionalist school of thought) believe that metaphysics, or grace/salvation, comes first, and then, and only then, does true vision/values/perspective on earthly issues become injected into religion. IOW, the religious "wisdom" about worldly concerns, according to these pious philosophers, does not itself come from a worldly source at all! Nor do they think it can, as the earth is the "lowest" realm in the "great chain of being." Therefore, the faithful must rely on "other-worldly" thinking in order to "save" the world.

I do not necessarily agree with that last sentiment, but I won't go into my own personal theological beliefs here.

I'm very wary of those who want to erode the wall between religion and politics. I opposed Bush's "faith-based" iniative, and I had thought Etzioni would have also, considering his more secular take on Communitarianism, but apparently not.

He cites social research that supposedly proves that religion is de facto a force for good. I'm highly skeptical, as it contradicts what I've read on the subject (though I'm no expert in this field).

I think this blog is worth considering: http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/10/11/better-off-without-him/

Jonathan

I was interested to read Carl's remark (10.53PM):

QUOTE "I agree that there's plenty of hedonism in American culture and suspect it will be our undoing. But I don't believe that secularism is necessarily hedonistic." UNQUOTE

This was almost exactly what I and some friends recently agreed on at a garden barbeque. Although we felt it didn't have to be that way, we felt that secular hedonism would, in the end, destroy European culture and civilization. We were quite serious about this. And then we had another beer and hamburger.

How odd that so many of us in the west are concluding the same thing, even admitting that it does not have to be this way, and yet doing nothing about it. We're knowingly rolling downhill towards the edge of a cliff.

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